Hello Milton,<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 2/27/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Milton Mueller</b> <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">Mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">I support including the language on T&A, but recognize Bill's concerns. I think Bill fears stalking horses for ISOC and ICC, to be blunt.
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<div>I agree that this is his concern, but think it should be left out of the discussion about such a fundamental issue of including engineers while discussing "bridge bulidng" (as Luc so aptly put it).<br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Recognizing that concern, I think it would be great to get a Paul Vixie or a Geoff Huston (both of whom turn various shades of red at any mention of my name, by the way, so don't think I'm trying to populate with it my friends) involved.
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<div>Many turn red at the mention of your name Milton, consider it a badge of honour! <br><br>If you create a 4th stakeholder group, you'll be more likely to get your Vixie's n Huston's!!<br> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">>>> Wolfgang Kleinwächter <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de" target="_blank">
wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de </a>> 2/27/2006 11:04 AM >>><br>Bill:<br>W's proposal for a special Advisory Committee of T&A is totally out of the blue and has never been discussed</blockquote>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Wolfgang:<br>This is not rrue. I advertised this idea already in Tunis and repeated in frequently in several mails. The idea was to get rid of the debate on a 4th stakeholder group.
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<div>And why do that? I can't guarantee success of the IGF, however, I think I can guarantee failure (for some value of failure, in this case a talking shop only = failure in many minds) IF it can't get enough of the Internet Technical Community to care about it's recommendations.
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">And indeed,, if I remember the discussion from the Chateau, it was the argument, that the nature of this group is different that the nature of stakeholders (neutral advisers, consultants vs. advocacy groups).
<br><br>Bill:<br>I for one would be strongly opposed to it.<br><br>Wolfgang:<br>Why? I do not understand it. Academic advise to the IGF is one of our targets with regard to the Malta/Dresden process on a "Global Internet Governance Academic Research network".
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<div>Wolfie, I think that it's not about "Academics", but rather the technical folk who should be embraced (as MM gave us 2 examples above).</div>
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<div>Not all academics are technical.</div>
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<div>Not all tech folk are academics.</div>
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<div>I think Avri's formulation ITOC - Technical and Operational Community is a much better term than T&A.</div>
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<div>It lets all the academics who are ITOC in, and allows those academics who are not to stay safely in CS.</div>
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<div>Let's build a big eoungh table for everyone. For those we need to come, but who haven't for some reason or another, let's invite them specifically.</div>
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<div>I don't care about how governments will react, nor do I care about how the rest of CS will react</div>
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<div>It's the right thing to do. Unless it gets done, all you'll have is your talking shop, and you'll be welcome to it!</div>
<div> </div></div>-- <br>Cheers,<br><br>McTim<br>$ whois -h <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://whois.afrinic.net/" target="_blank">whois.afrinic.net</a> mctim<br>