[Values-ethics] Re: Talking about Values, Ethics and Netiquette - difference between 1/1 e-mails and mailing lists - tech exclusion

Tue Feb 10 12:49:55 GMT 2004

Dear Claude,

Linux is excellent, Geert is fine media theorist (I thought you didn't like theorists?), net critic and activist and I see that you are a great activist too. I know about the issue and I agree that it is one of the problems that have to be resolved still. That is one of the reasons why we are setting up this event. Let all have broadband as soon as possible for example, a discussion point I confronted the UN with at the end of last year, that I to have confronted WSIS with through The World Forum on Communication Rights. WSIS or Stallman gave no reaction.

Anyway, you are against porn and / or Microsoft and / or MSN:

From:  "Claude Almansi" <claude.almansi at b...> 
Date:  Sun Jul 20, 2003  2:29 pm
Subject:  explicit banner for hardcore p0rn sites on www.msn.ch/stellen

From:  "Claude Almansi" <claude.almansi at b...> 
Date:  Wed Jul 23, 2003  10:30 am
Subject:  P0RN AT MSN.CH (the return,and new site LOL)

This explains a lot why you are so determent. Why exclude anyone in your hopes and fight for a better world? I know that MSN and Microsoft are also determent that it will prevail. (Gates alone spent over $ 22 billion since 1999 to achieve this. On second place in the same period Gordon More spent just (?) 7 billion in the same period). And were is the UN?

By the way, MSN removed all porn banners last summer. That was fantastic news for you, me and them (they were very relived that they got a go to do so)

You mentioned www.46664.com, with whom we have a healthy contact, just as we have with the NM Foundation. I can't help that Tiscali was the host. They to would want to do business with us, but we rejected.

You wrote that "Big attachments ARE a no no on mailing-lists". This was no mailing-list, it was a mail for all those (and only the 506 one) of the WSIS, names given to us by the UN and the CoE  (the reason why I, for the moment, is confidential).

You wrote: III d Internet providers offering free use of internet access - Many ISPs in poor countries would have difficulties doing so. And I can't see the connexion with IBM hosting the communities - this is great, but it still doesn't solve the question of accessing communities, and of uploading music there if the connexion infrastructure is poor.

Answer: This a one of the R&D issues for VU Amsterdam, TNO, IBM and Microsoft and "a" reason why WSIS should support the project.

You wrote: And further down, page 5, point 7c, in the section on "The role and responsibilities of "Individuals" and the "Communities" points to a very limited range of this free use:  "They must use the Internet provider’s subscription exclusively for the purpose for which it is intended (i.e. to transfer information to and from the platform and their personal computer / workstation)"

Answer: You know that this not their or our intention, that it is nonsense Claude!

You wrote: A budget of 3'470'000 euros for a development project is reasonable. 

Answer: Not only reasonable, but free also for all, so also for those who live in poverty (for whom we have created even a special charity program, going even much further then the project "Hole in the Wall" sponsored by the WB.

You wrote: But what development and for whom is actually involved in your project remains unclear.

Answer: I can't see the point, its clear to all others.

My question for you is: "What is the nature of your work"?

With the utmost respect,
Robert

----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- 
Van: "Claude Almansi" <claude.almansi at bluewin.ch>
Aan: "VROs United World Vision Festivals on Global Issues" <rockproject at 6xa.nl>
CC: <values-ethics at wsis-cs.org>
Verzonden: dinsdag 10 februari 2004 10:31
Onderwerp: Re: Talking about Values, Ethics and Netiquette - difference between 1/1 e-mails and mailing lists - tech exclusion

> Dr Ebbeler
> 
> Could you please explain why it is OK to send "a lot of e-mails (the same
> [I] received)" in Bcc and it is not OK for me to put Geert Lovink in Bcc,
> please? "you are sending them" is a crass exageration, Geert's address was -
> and is again - the only one in Bcc, because worms use personal addresses as
> spoofed senders.
> 
> So maybe your contacts all have broadband  and aren't bothered, as you say.
> I'm not personally bothered, I have broadband too.
> 
> But  there is a big difference between sending an e-mail to someone you know
> and sending an e-mail to a mailing list, where you don't know the members or
> their condition of access to ICT. You see, there are still people who don't
> have broadband access in the world: WSIS 1 was about this, and this is a
> WSIS-connected list with people who don't. But of course, the e-mail with
> the big attachments was your first one to this list so you didn't know that,
> you didn't know that the big, proprietary-format  attachment problem had
> already been discussed here - with Richard M. Stallman raising the issue.
> 
> Do a Google search for netiquette mailing lists attachments, please, you
> will find hundreds of pages about the subject, for instance:
> 
> From Erasmus Student Network guidelines at
> http://www.helsinki.fi/hyy/esn/netiquette.html (site of the Students' Union
> at the University of Helsinki)
> 
> "What you should not send
> 
> (...)
> 
> 
>   a.. Pictures or attachments. Large attachments tend to fill up people's
> mailboxes which causes them to be unable to receive more e-mails. Moreover
> some people still use a slow connection to read their e-mail and downloading
> pictures and other large attachments can be annoying and moreover cost time
> and money for them. If you want to send a photograph, a map, etc. to the
> list, please put it on a web page instead, and only write the URL in your
> mail.
>    (...)"
> .Or from  "Vrolijk kerstfeest???" (well, we are approaching carnaval now
> too) by Jan Van Hee:
> http://www.khbo.be/cgi-bin/display?list=mathlist&msg=88 :
> 
> "Stuur nooit ongevraagd attachments naar een mailinglist die niets met de
> zaak te maken hebben. Als je een zinvol attachment wil meesturen zorg er dan
> voor dat het niet te groot is (sommige mailing lists hanteren een grens van
> 50 KB) en zorg ervoor dat zoveel mogelijk mensen het kunnen lezen (gebruik
> een zo universeel mogelijk formaat, bvb. liever tekst dan Word-document). "
> 
> Big attachments ARE a no no on mailing-lists - yours were way above the 50kb
> limit mentioned by Jan Van Hee in the latter quotation. Please also note his
> advice about prefering plain text to Word documents if you want to reach as
> many people as possible. And again, what was the point of the 722KB if you
> could have conveyed the same content in 4KB by linking to your site?
> 
> A music project through the internet is interesting per se. But sound files
> still require broadband, even in streaming. 30 million people (quoting your
> info) viewing www.46664.com is an exhilerating event, granted, but it was
> not for people on dial-up. You mention research and development several
> times in your project description, true. But developping lighter music
> formats to make it available to people on slow connexion is not mentioned in
> your "The role and responsibilities of the VRO Foundation to establish World
> Visions Festivals" section (p. 4 of your Word file), or anywhere else in
> your documents. Sure, the project is still in progress, but your blitheful
> ignoring this aspect in your e-mail communication does not point to it being
> included in your agenda.
> 
> Other puzzling elements in this section:
> 
> III b, the part about legal firms to develop the legal infrastructure,
> including the copyright protection. Such a development has been going on for
> years now in the Creative Commons project, which you don't mention.
> 
> III d Internet providers offering free use of internet access - Many ISPs in
> por countries would have difficulties doing so. And I can't see the
> connexion with IBM hosting the communities - this is great, but it still
> doesn't solve the question of accessing communities, and of uploading music
> there if the connexion infrastructure is poor.
> 
> And further down, page 5, point 7c, in the section on "The role and
> responsibilities of "Individuals" and the "Communities" points to a very
> limited range of this free use:  "They must use the Internet provider’s
> subscription exclusively for the purpose for which it is intended (i.e. to
> transfer information to and from the platform and their personal computer /
> workstation)"
> 
> III e  "  Application software houses: To provide the community members with
> licensed copies of the application software for use through-out the
> competition. (We are assuming 5 to 20 sets per community)" This clashes with
> your "Open-Source" declaration in your powerpoint. And what about after the
> competition? Why not rather encourage the present development of
> non-proprietary music software?
> 
> I'll stop here. Had you shown respect of people's internet access conditions
> in your first e-mail to this list (and others), these points would have been
> less worrying. A budget of 3'470'000 euros for a development project is
> reasonable. But what development and for whom is actually involved in your
> project remains unclear.
> 
> sincerely
> 
> Claude Almansi
> 
> 
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