Sarbast Hussein (PUK) from OutThere

[stk at schism.antenna.nl]

------------------------------ forwarded message -----------------------------
M.MERLIN at TBX.berlinet.de writes:

## Nachricht zur Information/Dokumentation weitergeleitet
## Orig.-Empf.: /SOC/CULTURE/KURDISH
## Orig.-Abs. : kendal at nucst9.neep.wisc.edu (Kendal)


Here is an edited transcript of OutThere's live discussion with
Sarbast Hussein, London spokesman of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan
(PUK), on Tuesday September 3, 1996.

Paul Eedle, OutThere news service: Welcome to OutThere's live
discussion. OutThere news service's guest today is Sarbast Hussain,
London spokesman of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK), one of the
two main Kurdish groups which have controlled much of northern Iraq
since the end of the Gulf War in 1991.

PUK forces were driven out of the city of Arbil on Saturday (August
31) by Iraqi government forces supporting the rival Kurdish Democratic
Party (KDP), sparking an international crisis. The United States
launched cruise missiles against Iraqi military targets to punish
Baghdad for intervening in the Kurdish area, which is protected by a
UN-sponsored "no fly zone".

Mr Hussain, thank you for being with us today. First of all, we would
like to ask what are your personal feelings are about this renewed
conflict in Kurdistan?

Sarbast Hussain: My personal feeling is that we are facing great human
suffering which is hard to tolerate in modern life. By this I mean the
suffering of nearly 28 million Kurds worldwide. I feel that the
Kurdish people are now living a historic moment - the safe haven is
challenged, the United Nations resolution 688 is being violated, and I
believe something should be done about it.

Starr Baroth: Why in your opinion do you believe Saddam has made this
move against the Kurds?

Sarbast Hussain: Mainly for two reasons. First, he is testing now and
then the Western appetite to protect the Kurdish people in Iraq.
Secondly, it is of his character to be in the news and be seen that he
is doing something, no matter what it is. He wants to be seen in
charge at least in the eyes of his own oppressed people in Iraq.

Peter Thompson, contributing writer to "Kurdish Life" in New York:
What was the quid pro quo for Talabani to act as the go-between
between Washington and Tehran over the past year?

Sarbast Hussain: I'm not clear about the question.

Paul Eedle: I think Peter is suggesting that the PUK has been acting
as a messenger between the United States and the Iranian government.

Sarbast Hussain: What's wrong with that?

Paul Eedle: If it is true that the PUK has been playing this role,
what is the benefit to the PUK of doing so?

Sarbast Hussain: I asked you to rephrase and explain your question
more. But if you are suggesting that Mr Talabani is acting as a
messenger between Washington and Tehran, I'd like you to explain what
sort of messenger do you mean? Do you mean a negotiating third party
between them? If that's what you mean, I don't see anything wrong with
that. Iran is a neighbouring country to Kurdistan. It has an important
role in the area, this cannot be denied. We need friendly relations
with all our neighbouring countries, apart from the Iraqi regime. I
say apart from the Iraqi regime because he is guilty of killing a
quarter of a million Kurds using the nastiest weapons and methods and
because we are directly affected by his oppression.

Peter Thomson: Mr Hussain, you have suggested that the Iraqi people
should be protected in Northern Iraq but Talabani (PUK leader) has
worked with Tehran to shell and attack the Iranian DPIK in northern
Iraq.

Sarbast Hussain: There have been limited acts of violation by Iran
inside the Kurdish area. We condemned it, we still do, but this has
never been approved or orchestrated by the PUK.

Starr Baroth: Do you agree with how President Clinton has reacted to
this crisis by having the US bomb them?

Sarbast Hussain: As one step a a series of steps, yes. But I believe
there are other measures to follow. First is to expand the no-fly zone
in the north southwards to the 34th parallel to cover the province of
Sulaimaniya with nearly a million population. Secondly, there has to
be a clear definition of the safe haven and its borders so that Saddam
Hussein will not exploit any ambiguity about it

Paul Eedle: The PUK's leader, Jalal Talabani, warned that the PUK
would seek help from Iran if the US did not intervene against the
Iraqi government. Now that the US has intervened militarily, will the
PUK stop any dealings with Iran?

Sarbast Hussain: We are not only after a token intervention. Our aim
is a secure reassurance to the Kurdish people to lead a normal life.
We basically demand arrangements that will make the Kurdish people
believe again that a safe haven really means SAFE HAVEN... I have to
say that this latest event has made a large number of Kurds suspicious
and worried about the West and their promise of protection to the
Kurds. Their confidence has to be regained again.

Paul Eedle: What arrangements would satisfy you?

Sarbast Hussain: A good question.

Paul Eedle: But what would be required - Western ground troops?

Sarbast Hussain: Ultimately, something that would reassure us that
Saddam would not find it possible to decide at night and send his
troops the day after to terrorise millions of people. This demands
creating some kind of balance of power. Kurdistan needs defence
weapons against tanks and armoured vehicles, not necessarily Western
personnel, but hardware, or a more determined signal to Saddam - such
as expanding the no-fly zone further south, lifting the sanctions
against the Kurdish people to allow them to import the tools that let
them rebuild the infrastructure in the country. It is very ironic to
find that while the Kurdish people are victims of Saddam Hussein, they
are now being punished by these sanctions for a reason that is of
Saddam Hussein's making.

Mark Lynas, News Editor of OneWorld Online: How can the Kurds ever
succeed in establishing an independent homeland if they can never sort
out their differences?

Sarbast Hussain: There ARE differences and there have been differences
in every nation. These differences do not make us inferior to any
other sovereign nation However it might be bad luck to have a faction,
and a corrupt ruling family of that faction, that have chosen to
prefer Saddam over another rival faction from their own people. To me,
this is the same as asking Hitler to protect the Jews from Hitler
himself. What the KDP leaders have done is an act of treason. They
represent themselves only and the Kurdish people, including their
ordinary members, have nothing to do with them. This does not mean
that the Kurdish people do not deserve sovereignty. I would like to
add something here. You can read of many peoples' revolutions that had
to fight against an occupier as well as an internal mercenary force -
for example Vietnam, China, Algeria etc.

Paul Eedle: In the past, the PUK also had dealings with the Baghdad
government. Why is what the KDP is doing different?

Sarbast Hussain: It is very, very different. First, we have ALWAYS
negotiated with Baghdad by sending delegates to them or receiving
their delegates and TALKING. We believe in negotiations. We prefer it
to killing.. What makes this act of treason by the KDP so different is
not the negotiation, it's the fact that they have APPEALED to Saddam
Hussein to come and 'liberate' Arbil for them. They have shown no
agreement, there have been no talks, no assurance for the Kurdish
people. All they have done is to bring back, with no return at all,
the tyrant against whom the Kurdish people have been fighting for 23
years.

Paul Eedle: Richard Trafton has a question about the Assyrians in
Kurdistan. What is the PUK's position on the Assyrians? Richard has a
report that a rocket fired from a PUK position hit a church in or near
the village of Diana and killed two clergymen yesterday.

Sarbast Hussain: Assyrians are the genuine original people of
Mesopotamia along with Kurds, long before Arabs came. They have
contributed to the civilisation of Mesopotamia. They have every right
to be safe and proud of their country. However, as a minority,
regrettably, they have become victim of the big fire in the area. The
tragic incident you mention should not have occurred, but civilians,
clergy, mosques and churches are destroyed in wars and this is the
nasty part of the tragedy of every war.

Paul Eedle: Would the PUK be prepared to negotiate with the Baghdad
government at present?

Sarbast Hussain: NO. He has scarred UN resolution 688. He has up to
this moment got away with violating international law.

Peter Thompson: Is there an agreement between the PUK and Tehran in
assisting the destroying of the DPIK HQ in northern Iraq? And what
role does Washington play?

Sarbast Hussain: There is no agreement between the PUK and Iran. The
PUK has never and will not interfere or facilitate interference of
neighbouring countries. But we plead to our brothers in the other
parts of Kurdistan, not to exploit the safe haven as a base to launch
an attack against their own regimes.

Mark Lynas: I don't think Mr Hussain answered my question about the
possibility of eventual unity among the Kurdish people. Just calling
the opposing faction 'traitors' isn't going to end the differences
surely?

Sarbast Hussain: We have no problem with KDP members and supporters,
the problem is with the heads. We are prepared to solve the problems
with the KDP after the heads are punished.

Starr Baroth: Other than being uplifted in the eyes of his followers,
what other benefit does Saddam have to gain by these current acts of
brutality?

Sarbast Hussain: It's part of Saddam's personality to have different
definitions to the terms 'gain' and 'loss' to what ordinary people
like me and you have for these words. There was nothing to be gained
by invading Kuwait and losing the sovereignty and revenue of Iraq for
years to come, but he did it. There are personal drives for him that
are different from ordinary civilised leaders of nations.

Peter Thompson: Mr Hussain, do you know the precise formula of the
recent UN oil deal in splitting the proceedings between PUK and KDP
(if it goes ahead)?

Sarbast Hussain: I do not have this exact detail, but the United
Nations signed with Iraqi delegates in New York to sell $2 billion
worth of oil over six months. It was meant that the Kurds should have
their share. I have no more details than that, unfortunately.

Paul Eedle: Selim Guncer asked, so I presume the PUK is against the
operation of the PKK for example?

Sarbast Hussain: We are against making the safe haven a base for
military actions against any of the neighbouring countries. The area
simply cannot risk it. We ask all the faithful Kurds in Kurdistan to
understand the sensitivity.

Starr Baroth: And what would that risk be? If you could clarify?

Sarbast Hussain: Last year, for example, the PKK gave Turkey the
excuse to overrun villages in Iraqi Kurdistan.

Selim Guncer: Mr Hussain, there is a big outcry in the Turkish
community against Operation Provide Comfort, because it is basically
allowing a "safe haven" for the PKK. The PUK should demonstrate that
PKK's actions can not be tolerated.

Sarbast Hussain: At this very moment, there is no member or base of
the PKK in the safe haven and we have asked them to respect this
demand.

Peter Thompson: Mr Hussain, did you sit in the recent meetings in
London with the US? And what was resolved in that meeting between the
KDP and the PUK?

Sarbast Hussain: These meetings were interrupted suddenly by Saddam's
onslaught on Arbil. That was at the introductory meetings, before any
serious matter was discussed. These talks were encouraged by the US.
However, it appeared that while responding to it, the KDP had another
agenda. They simply walked out.

Peter Thompson: Are you receiving custom tax from the Turkey-Iraqi
border controlled by Barzani; what percentage; and is this the basis
for disagreement with the KDP, excluding recent events.

Sarbast Hussain: No we do not get any percentage, because the area has
been controlled by the KDP for over three years. I have to admit that
this is part of the problems between the KDP and the PUK simply
because the revenue of these customs is nearly $20 million per month,
which we believe would help substantially for the reconstruction of
Kurdistan. However, the KDP have confiscated it since, and didn't hand
it over to the democratically elected parliament, in which they had
half the seats.

Richard Trafton: If the PUK were to receive American assistance as you
desire it (troops equipment, etc) would you attempt to create a
separate state from Iraq? Reestablish Kurdistan?

Sarbast Hussain: Our aim at this moment is a federal Iraq in which we
are treated equally. If this is too much for successive governments in
Iraq, a separate Kurdish state will be inevitable. We are not proud to
be part of a country in which we haven't seen anything but oppression,
discrimination, and destruction of the culture, language and Kurdish
heritage. We are, however, happy to live with our brothers in Iraq as
equal citizens, no less.

Selim Guncer: How can you achieve this goal when even the US is
refraining from toppling Saddam? A weak Iraq ruled by a madman seems
to serve U.S. interests better.

Sarbast Hussain: You are right in the scenario you quote, but peoples
have GAINED sovereignty not offered to them. We believe there will be
a day that the world community finds it unacceptable to turn a blind
eye on millions of people who are so willing to be free.

Peter Thompson: Mr Hussain, does the INC exist any longer given recent
events?

Sarbast Hussain: Yes, the INC is an elected organisation. But sadly,
they encountered huge losses in numbers after the treason of KDP
leadership in Arbil these past few days. But as a political
organisation, the INC is still a hope for the Iraqi people. They have
to take sides in this conflict and they have condemned the KDP
bitterly and made sacrifices towards a democratic Iraq.

Paul Eedle: Thank you very much, Mr Hussein, for joining us this
evening. This crisis looks far from over. Iraqi President Saddam
Hussein has ordered his armed forces to shoot at Western planes
enforcing the "no-fly zones" and there are reports of fighting
continuing in Kurdistan itself. We're hoping to have a session with a
KDP representative tomorrow at the same time - check on our Web page
at http://www.oneworld.org/outthere/ot_debate.html tomorrow for
details.

Sarbast Hussain: I JUST HAVE ONE THING TO SAY. I want to meet the KDP
representative tomorrow and I will certainly do my best.

(Ends)


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Solidaritygroup Turkey-Kurdistan
Memberorganisation of Foundation Initiativegroup Kurdistan
P.O. Box 85306
3508 AH Utrecht
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stk at schism.antenna.nl
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