Burhan Jaf (KDP) from OutThere

[stk at schism.antenna.nl]

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M.MERLIN at TBX.berlinet.de writes:

## Nachricht zur Information/Dokumentation weitergeleitet
## Orig.-Empf.: /SOC/CULTURE/KURDISH
## Orig.-Abs. : kendal at nucst9.neep.wisc.edu (Kendal)


This is an edited transcript of OutThere's live discussion with Burhan
Jaf, a London-based official of the Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP), on
Wednesday September 4, 1996.

Paul Eedle, OutThere news service: OutThere's guest today is Burhan
Jaf, a London-based official of the Kurdish Democratic Party, one of
the two main Kurdish groups which have controlled much of northern
Iraq since the end of the Gulf War in 1991. Fighting between the two
groups has sparked an international crisis. Iraqi government forces
invited by the KDP drove the rival Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK)
out of the city of Arbil on Saturday. The United States responded by
launching cruise missiles against Iraqi military targets to punish
Baghdad for intervening in the Kurdish area, which is protected by a
UN-sponsored "no fly zone".

Mr Jaf, What is the latest news from Kurdistan? Is fighting still
going on, and are Iraqi troops still involved?

Burhan Jaf: No, there is no fighting for the last 72 hours between the
KDP and the PUK. The fighting took only 10 hours and after that the
city is totally in control of the KDP. The city is normal, people are
back to work as normal. There is not a single Iraqi troop in Arbil. As
far as we know, the Iraqis have gone back to their previous line.

Paul Eedle: Outside Arbil, though, there are reports that the Iraqi
forces are shelling Chamchamal on the road to Sulaymaniyah.

Burhan Jaf: I cannot confirm this information but I wouldn't be
surprised. I would add they shell this city every year three or four
times. Since 1992, Chamchamal has been shelled several times a year.
IT'S NOTHING NEW.

Paul Eedle: But it would mean Iraqi forces are still in action inside
Kurdish territory in support of the KDP.

Burhan Jaf: There is no Iraqi support for the KDP. We don't have any
political alliance with the Iraqi regime. As far as we are concerned,
the Iraqis would be doing this for their own reasons.

Paul Eedle: So it is not true that you appealed to the Iraqi
government for help against the PUK?

Burhan Jaf: We certainly took advantage of Iraqi shelling of part of
Arbil because at the time, when the Iraqi army was shelling, the KDP
was storming the city, so indirectly, yes, we benefited. Certainly the
government did it for three reasons. First to send a message to the
PUK not to be too close to the Iranians; second, to test the ground,
how would the Western allies react; and third, to show the KDP that
they were doing us a favour, taking account that the KDP called for
help to counter the PUK and Iranian forces alliance against them

Richard Trafton: Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) President Abdullah
Ocalan stated on the Kurdish satellite station MED-TV in Europe on
September 1, 1996: "We hear that there is talk of autonomy for the
Kurds in northern Iraq [South Kurdistan], but this brings to mind the
1974 negotiations between the KDP and the regime in Baghdad. Those
talks resulted in the inglorious end of Mullah Mustafa Barzani
[founder of the KDP]. If his son, Mesut Barzani, plays the same game,
he will meet the same end."

Does Mesut Barzani fears for his life at the hands of Saddam?

Burhan Jaf: I don't think there will be at the moment any scope for
negotiation with the present regime or Iraq simply because it would
have to be approved by the parliament and the representatives of the
Kurdish people. We don't have political alignment with Baghdad. This
is a one-off indirect military cooperation and that's it. The KDP
today responded to the US State Department call and the British call
for the US to play a role to bring the two factions to continue their
talks, and Barzani today sent a reply to Warren Christopher and the
British as well that he welcomed their statement and he would like a
comprehensive peace settlement with Talabani.

Paul Eedle: Is the KDP disturbed by the way in which these events have
escalated into an international crisis?

Burhan Jaf: We are not disturbed at all by what happened. We
contributed to bringing the Kurdish situation to the world again, and
that the KDP felt that the Iranian threat has been neglected by our
Western allies, and we are tired of regional intervention in our
affairs, and yet there is no Western response to that.

Paul Eedle: What was the origin of this most recent conflict with the
PUK?

Burhan Jaf: The origin is that for the first time a regional power
like Iran invaded the territory of the KDP, supporting militarily the
PUK. This is the first time this happened.

Paul Eedle: There have been reports for some time, though, about
disputes between the PUK and KDP over money, specifically sharing the
revenue from customs dues on the border with Turkey.

Burhan Jaf: This is a naive and simple analysis to the conflict. It's
not about money, it's about power, who takes control.

Siamak Rezaei: Why don't you fight against Saddam who is/was killing
the Kurds?

Burhan Jaf: Politically, we are still fighting Saddam's dictatorship.
Militarily we cannot match his power, so we need sophisticated weapons
in order to stand any chance.

Peter Thompson: You mention Iran as "interfering', but what is your
response to claims Barzani has aided Turkey in fighting the PKK in
northern Iraq?

Burhan Jaf: Barzani and the KDP NEVER helped Turkey to fight the PKK
in the way that the PUK is helping Iran against us.

Paul Eedle: In 1992, the Kurdish people of northern Iraq held
elections and set up an autonomous administration. Protected by
Western air forces enforcing the "no fly zone", the Kurds achieved the
autonomy they had wanted for many years. Why did they allow
differences between the PUK and the KDP to put all this at risk?

Burhan Jaf: Simply - first, we wanted to run the regime by democratic
means, while the other faction wanted to run it by dictatorship. The
KDP resisted dictatorship by the PUK, who occupied the parliament
twice, in 1993 and 1994. The other thing is we have to mention the
outside powers, the Allies. There is no status for this entity, the
autonomous entity, in the international arena. There is no economic
support for it and we became dependent on NGOs and surrounded by
hostile governments, and I'm afraid the West didn't do enough to
consolidate this democratic experiment in 1992.

Peter Thompson: Mr Jaf, why do you believe Washington allowed Talabani
to win control of Arbil over a year ago in fighting. And, do you
believe Washington favours Talabani?

Burhan Jaf: No, I don't believe Washington favours Talabani. I don't
think they allowed them or anything like that. It was just a coup
d'etat, never expected to be executed by a partner in government, and
the KDP at the time didn't wish to bring the conflict into the cities.

Siamak Rezaei: What is the position of KDP towards Democratic Party of
Iranian Kurdistan? What has happened to those Iranian Kurdish refugees
in this conflict?

Burhan Jaf: Our position about the Iranian Kurds is that we condemn
the Iranian government offensive against the DPIK in Koysenjaq. This
was under the PUK control. Most of the refugees fled to Arbil. Some of
them fled to Salahuddin, where they were welcomed by the KDP. We have
a good relationship with them and we support their struggle in Iranian
Kurdistan. There were over 3,000 refugees in that camp.

Paul Eedle: When and where do you expect the KDP-PUK peace talks
organised by the US to take place?

Burhan Jaf: We hope the PUK will respond as soon as possible. It
depends on them.

Selim Guncer: Latest news is that Turkish troops are getting ready to
strike PKK positions in northern Iraq, which is controlled by KDP.
What is the relation of KDP with the PKK?

Burhan Jaf: We have no conflict with the PKK and we hope that will
remain for the future, although they have attacked us in the past.

Paul Eedle: What should the main points of a peace agreement be?

Burhan Jaf: It would be a return to the Drogheda agreement,
establishing a new government and resuming parliament, and all the
customs agreements would be back to the hands of the government. We
would have a common policy towards our neighbours and the central
government of Iraq.

Siamak Rezaei: What is the relation of your party with the party
headed by Adham Barzani. Isn't it supported by Iran?

Burhan Jaf: They are another political party. We have normal relations
with them.

Pushdaree: Mr Jaf, you mentioned that the fight is a case of one party
being in control. Since KDP took over Howlar, is Sulaymaniyah the next
target?

Burhan Jaf: We have no intention to expand the fight beyond Arbil and
we hope that we could come to a peace settlement.

Selim Guncer: What is your position on the actions of the PKK? By
saying you have no conflict with them, do you support the PKK? Since
they can live in KDP-controlled areas, I am curious of your position.

Burhan Jaf: I support the right of the Kurdish people in their
struggle in Turkey for their national and democratic rights and we
support all the political parties in Turkey which struggle to achieve
this peacefully.

Paul Eedle: How could a peace agreement on the lines you described be
guaranteed or enforced? Would it require outside monitors - if so, who
would pay for them?

Burhan Jaf: It would absolutely require outside monitors.

Peter Thompson: Does Barzani and the KDP feel 'abandoned' by
Washington?

Burhan Jaf: That is our feeling, yes.

Siamak Rezaei: What is your relationship with Iran? PUK claims that
you have many centers in Iran and KDP representative was in Iran for
the anniversary of Khomeini's death.

Burhan Jaf: We have an office in Tehran, certainly, but the other
offices have been all closed don by the Iranian authorities.

Paul Eedle: Who do you think the outside monitors of a peace agreement
should be?

Burhan Jaf: Ideally it should be the United States, France, Britain,
and certainly the U.N.

Paul Eedle: Do you agree with the PUK's call for the no-fly zone to be
extended south to the 34th parallel and for the UN sanctions on Iraq
to be lifted for the Kurds?

Burhan Jaf: Yes, I agree. I would add that we agree on many points,
it's just unfortunate that we fight each other.

Peter Thompson: In today's Jerusalem Post, it suggested Talabani was
the "winner". But, it also recalled Mustafa's close ties with Israel
and asked how could "Hebrew-speaking" Barzani associated with Saddam.
Do you agree that Talabani was a "winner"?

Burhan Jaf: Never, he's a short-sighted politician thinking of himself
first and the Kurdish people second.

Peter Thompson: Is the KDP still involved with the INC?

Burhan Jaf: Yes, Peter, we are still a member of the INC.

Siamak Rezaei: What has happened to the PUK officials arrested by PDK
in the conflict?

Burhan Jaf: There are about 60, they are being well treated and have
been visited by the Red Cross. But I add it's difficult to know
exactly who they are and it's very confusing. For example, Talabani's
wife was reported by the PUK to have been captured by us and they
campaigned for her release, and after two days she turned out to be in
Sulaymaniyah with her husband.

Paul Eedle: Our time's up. Thank you very much, Mr Jaf, for joining
us. We heard the PUK side of events last night so it was important
that we had the chance to hear the KDP's position.

Burhan Jaf: Thank you, goodnight.

(Ends)



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